Curse

Sekkira · May 07, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Sekkira, anyone who has played a decent MM will know that you actually need effort to summon a large army. And those MMs will also know that as soon as the corpses stop rolling in or you come up against a large amount of AoE/multi target damage, your suffering huge losses.

Anyone who has played a decent MM will know that AoE is no problem with such large numbers and it really doesn't require too much skill to build up and maintain this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

So please, stfu.

I retort with:

Viruzzz · May 07, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

was hoping this thread would survive a bit longer before the flamefest started.

also, i don't see how you can talk about an MM for farming, you need to have corpses to make minions at all, and most of the time, anywhere worth farming is hard to kill with a MM (and no minions)

Carinae · May 07, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Most of the whining in this thread can be summed up in a single sentence:

OMG I CAN'T MAKE AN ARMY THAT WILL OBLITERATE ANYTHING IN MY WAY WITH LITTLE TO NO EFFORT

We will not be dismissed this easily. We are making clear, concise arguments on the recent changes. You are not.

If you think it takes no skill to raise and maintain 50+ minions, you're very mistaken. That took skill.

Before it was: always draw aggro yourself becoming a target, screen the attackers off on the Horrors, heal with BotM, don't get killed while sacrificing, what targets to attack and in what order, what to do when melee attackers go after the Fiends.

Now: just activate AotL + BR and spam BotM like mad. Why bother with any strategy, they are going to die quickly anyway, just replace and slam!

Solo farming is EASIER with Flesh Golem and Pain! Now it takes ABSOLUTELY no strategy.

Cast Pain
Pain kills Lynx/Mergoyle
Cast Flesh Golem
Go get soda/potty break
Come back and cast 3 Fiends
Recast FG
Slam into mobs

There's Ettin Farming!

/signed on the STFU

Fargin Scotchsman · May 07, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

wut u mean solo mm's cant farm?!?! with a lvl 16 death, plus the staff upgrade, deathly swarm/deathly chill/vile touch (not all in same skillbar) cud output enough dmg to get ur first corpe. summon horror/minion, deathly swarm and help horror/minion kill another. its really not that difficult to build an army when soloin. plus, if u go max death, then add blood and sr, u got sum mo offensive spells. since u dun really need that many that many spells to upkeep army (vs, BoTM, i sumtimes used well o blood). any "good" necro imo can improv wit skillz to make a successful solo mm build, and still be able to upkeep massive army. all u gotta do is play around wit skill combos and see wut works when, not that hard.

Crimson Ashwood · May 08, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Most of the whining in this thread can be summed up in a single sentence:

OMG I CAN'T MAKE AN ARMY THAT WILL OBLITERATE ANYTHING IN MY WAY WITH LITTLE TO NO EFFORT

I still love my minion master, pre-nerf, there'd be no reason to be anything else BUT an MM in PvE really. The only instance that would happen, is if you were in a group with other players.

I hate the nerf, but it makes a hell of a lot of sense, so I can't see myself crying like a 13yo girl about it. I have OTHER things in the game to cry about... such as BLOODSTAINED BOOTS FFS!!!

Sekkira · May 08, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

We will not be dismissed this easily. We are making clear, concise arguments on the recent changes. You are not.

If you think it takes no skill to raise and maintain 50+ minions, you're very mistaken. That took skill.

Spam animate fiends/horrors, depending on which isn't recharging, priority on the fiends as that's where the damage is. Hit VS whenever it recharges, BotM to keep whatever you can up in the downtime of VS. Obviously you have to get your minions into position for BotM, but that wasn't exactly a brain drain.

Now tell me where is the hard part about being a MM? Would it be this perhaps:

Evilsod · May 08, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Anyone who has played a decent MM will know that AoE is no problem with such large numbers and it really doesn't require too much skill to build up and maintain this.

Hmm, now where did i put my DoTAoEs... Oh thats right, all the frigging place. Would you mind telling me your secret for moving those stupid minions out of DoTAoE spells like Firestorm before getting blasted by Incendiary Bonds, Fireball and slowly wiped out by SS. All the while a Shadow Warrior is standing in the middle of the row of Fiends doing some hefty damage with Hundred Blades. Of course a decent MM would somehow make an extra 15 corpses appear to make up for the useless minion AI getting them all slaughtered...

You seem to think that spamming BotM, recasting VS and randomly summoning minions took no skill at all, so how much skill exactly does just recasting 'Summon Bone Fiend' everytime somethings dies take? Hell thats all i did for the entire length of the spider cave. Why worry about my old minions dieing from degen/damage when i'll have renewed them with a fresh new fiend in about 30 seconds.

Fargin Scotchsman · May 08, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

hmmm, does EoE work wit ritualist spirits or minions and such? never tried, but if it does, it wud make fo one welluva death nova/EoE spike, hehehe

and evilsod is right, the challegne is not summoning minions, its being able to upkeep them DURING the battle. i dun think AoE trigger affects summons, so basically, they jus run up and get slaughtered mercilessly. still havnt tied healing seed on em, but that wud make it a helluva lot easier, tho ud need alot in healing. o well, im happy wit my FoC "spike"......

Evilsod · May 08, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

I think they stopped EoE working with spirits, but as far as i know EoE totally massacres minions. 1 or 2 die from natural degen and over working and the rest will soon follow in a huge EoE bomb.

Fargin Scotchsman · May 08, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

o yea, forgot it hurts everything. wuda been interestin if it did work when tied wit death nova, oober deaths fo everybody, hehehe............

Evilsod · May 08, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Would be quite an interesting twist on an EoE bomb. A pack of minions covered in Death Nova all exploding suddenly. Hell you'd only need 6 to kill someone if they all copped it together.

Sekkira · May 08, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Hmm, now where did i put my DoTAoEs... Oh thats right, all the frigging place. Would you mind telling me your secret for moving those stupid minions out of DoTAoE spells like Firestorm before getting blasted by Incendiary Bonds, Fireball and slowly wiped out by SS. All the while a Shadow Warrior is standing in the middle of the row of Fiends doing some hefty damage with Hundred Blades. Of course a decent MM would somehow make an extra 15 corpses appear to make up for the useless minion AI getting them all slaughtered...

You seem to think that spamming BotM, recasting VS and randomly summoning minions took no skill at all, so how much skill exactly does just recasting 'Summon Bone Fiend' everytime somethings dies take? Hell thats all i did for the entire length of the spider cave. Why worry about my old minions dieing from degen/damage when i'll have renewed them with a fresh new fiend in about 30 seconds.

Bone Horrors are awfully good at body blocking, maybe you should use them some time. You also talk as if you're going to be taking on 10 different sets of mobs at once. The reason why MM was overpowered is due to the overwhelming damage you could throw at each group by sheer number.

If you ran in there knowing you'd be spammed with DoT AoE's and SS, your minions deserved to get wiped.

So, now that I've layed down the MM 'skill' in a single paragraph, are you just going to retort with assumptions to flaws in my explaination, or post your own reasons why a decent MM takes skill?

Fargin Scotchsman · May 08, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

i think im gunna see if EoE works on minions, then i wudnt have any prob with update at all. plus, solo necro mm wud be back, YAY!!!!
(if it works.........)

Sax Dakota · May 08, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Well I would like to point out that 1 aoe CAN wipe out an entire army Sekkira. Normally the fiends will create a firing line, and get wiped out in one aoe.

Now even with the VS "Nerf" I can still maintain my minions. Start echoing VS, this gives you an additional 10 seconds. And to Carinae I say this.... It looks like the MM's will be the ones doing the adapting. You also stated that healing is not an MM's concern. Well...it kinda is now, considering that one of the main heals we have for minions is gone

.

Evilsod · May 08, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Bone Horrors are awfully good at body blocking, maybe you should use them some time. You also talk as if you're going to be taking on 10 different sets of mobs at once. The reason why MM was overpowered is due to the overwhelming damage you could throw at each group by sheer number.

If you ran in there knowing you'd be spammed with DoT AoE's and SS, your minions deserved to get wiped.

So, now that I've layed down the MM 'skill' in a single paragraph, are you just going to retort with assumptions to flaws in my explaination, or post your own reasons why a decent MM takes skill?

At the last sentence, isn't that exactly what your doing? I never would've thought to use Horrors.... oh wait its that skill thats always next to Summon Bone Fiends on my skillbar when i play MM.

Its a shame that the last time i checked spells don't really get blocked by Horrors. Also they weren't invunerable to SS either, so the chances are that even if they're not in the battle to begin with, which seems to be your next 'point' did you ever stop and think that they may be standing near things that have been inflicted by them? Or have you also come up with a method of stopping Horrors standing near pets w/ SS and Fiends standing near Rangers w/ SS? (waits for witty reparte(sp?) about how i should move round and attack from the other side, meaning i enter the battle by the time its over) and of course stopping any minion from ever entering an DoT spell? It sounds like all you actually do when you play MM is stand at the back and watch while your minions slowly degen from boredom.
So these 10 mobs at once... i dunno when you last visited FoW, but there always seemed to be a fairly decent selection of groups there. Infact the group in the right of the start contains everything i just mentioned, Shadow Warrior/Ele/Mesmer/Beast.

Fargin Scotchsman · May 08, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

anyways, since nerf, the whole horror body blocking is useless, unless u bottleneck enemy in tiny little cavern, and i havnt seen many in gw.

btw, doom movie sux, dun waste money on it.
advent children rulzes imo, very good cg movie, ROCK ON SQUARE ENIX, ROCK ON!!

Evilsod · May 08, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Agreed, you can either bring up 10 Horrors and body block well, 10 fiends and do a lot of damage quickly thanks to the range, or some of each and hope for the best.

Fargin Scotchsman · May 08, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

in my eyes, the prophecies mm is dead. period.

Sekkira · May 08, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

At the last sentence, isn't that exactly what your doing? I never would've thought to use Horrors.... oh wait its that skill thats always next to Summon Bone Fiends on my skillbar when i play MM.

Its a shame that the last time i checked spells don't really get blocked by Horrors. Also they weren't invunerable to SS either, so the chances are that even if they're not in the battle to begin with, which seems to be your next 'point' did you ever stop and think that they may be standing near things that have been inflicted by them? Or have you also come up with a method of stopping Horrors standing near pets w/ SS and Fiends standing near Rangers w/ SS? (waits for witty reparte(sp?) about how i should move round and attack from the other side, meaning i enter the battle by the time its over) and of course stopping any minion from ever entering an DoT spell? It sounds like all you actually do when you play MM is stand at the back and watch while your minions slowly degen from boredom.
So these 10 mobs at once... i dunno when you last visited FoW, but there always seemed to be a fairly decent selection of groups there. Infact the group in the right of the start contains everything i just mentioned, Shadow Warrior/Ele/Mesmer/Beast.

What you're saying is basically along the lines of "MM's are completely useless and there is no way to have them not die." Unless you're trying to point out my flaw in when I said that they were a completely unstoppable force (please point that out though, I'm unsure what my fingers are typing, it's these brain cramps you see).

In fact, forget that, I don't know what the hell you're on about or what point you're trying to make.

I'm still waiting btw.

Fargin Scotchsman · May 08, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

true, they were insanely powerful in pve, but so were 55's. they "fixed" 55 wit the AoE trigger, and im fine wit dat, cuz it didnt completely nerf the build. now, the mm nerf completely destroyed that build in prophecies. sure, get factions u say, but ive been reading alot of negative comments on it. in this case, the nerf stick was switchd witha nerf nuke imo, very depressing........